Understanding of our rhythm as men + chocolate cake

So there is just something about being able to spill your guts with other guys who understand you inside out, who understand how we as guys sometimes just f#%k things up. Come on, let’s face it – there’s a bucket load of $$$ in speaking and publishing books and product about the differences between Man and Woman (and which planet we come from); and the debate is always futile because someone, with Their point of view is always going to be right (or need to be right). There are just some things that need to be vented (by men) in the presence of (good) men – and not with partners, daughters, mothers, (female) work colleagues. Guys have a certain rhythm, a certain way going about things. We are more likely [insert stereotyped generalisation here] to be like a bull-at-a-gate, you know, confront things head-on. Or the opposite, avoid things like a bad smell (even though we are often responsible for the smell?!?!)

Relationships are to be cherished, nurtured, and maintained. Men often need a unique perspective of a relationship (to do this) that they can only find when they get a breather, when they step back out of the ring, into their corner for a time out. Isn’t it obvious guys? Women do this naturally. We Men need a crow bar under us to ‘open up’ or ‘share’ where we are at, what are world is like. And it is by no means an easy thing to do. Some men quickly throw on the mask and give a great BS commentary on how weak or sissy it is to actually sit down and openly share what is it like in their world, with other men. And I mean sharing in a guy’s way. It has been widely documented how the feminist movement has done a great job in boosting the rights and equality of Women, and somewhere in there (some of) the men’s movement lost its balls! So much so that getting back to grass roots, doing guy stuff (like men-toring each other) became un-man-like. Men, I’ve got news for you. Women can not stand sissy, light and fluffy men.Boys looking up to Men as role models, need to experience Heroes, Kings, Warriors, Adventurers, Magicians, Lovers, Leaders, Fathers, Brothers with compassion, certainty, understanding, purpose, vulnerability. All to learn how to be a man themselves.

The following is body copy from a number of emails between Men – a follow on from a heart felt discussion (in person) about complexities of their relationships. Names have been omitted and/or altered to honour privacy, and out of respect to those whom the conversation may reference. These Men have given permission for these heart-felt words to be published because they understand other men – and the best way to lead men is by example. The context of the following conversation is centred on trying to grasp an understanding of our rhythm as men and how that works in with our partners when we are in relationship. How it is that we can feel safe opening up our world with other good men, yet if done (in a guy’s way) in relationship it can be fuel on a fire. And how our partners get to experience all aspects of us as men 24/7, so will unconsciously know our trigger points, hold us accountable, and hold a different set of expectations for us. This conversation is about a bunch of good men, seeking to better comprehend who they are, and who they are in relationship, so that they can continue to honour and respect both their relationship and their partner.

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I am often reminded of the story I heard about a health dietary guru that spoke wide and far about healthy eating but had an addiction or perhaps simply enjoyed chocolate cake. So behind closed doors they indulged the desire. Bottom line is at home our partners get to see, hear and know about the 'chocolate cake'. They see our real world, our reality. I realised just how much of what you shared is mirrored in my life. I know that I can make a difference in people’s lives but being in relationship shows up where I fail myself in my life. I guess if we were all perfect and did everything 'right' then we would not be human. Humanity is based on 'not being perfect but desiring perfection' if we did not desire something greater, then life would be a one-way street going the wrong way.

I am sitting with seeking a distinction of how we can sit around a table, share our reality, and not feel challenged or invalidated by each other but when our partners dare say the same thing the road leads to crisis. I am seeking the answer in my writing of this. I think it is in the ability to (in the moment) ask myself how I would listen and speak if I was speaking with one of you in the moment that I interact with my partner. Could I in this moment make a choice to hear and speak differently and change the communication pattern between myself and my partner without loosing the connection and intimacy of the relationship and without becoming my partner’s therapist?

I would value your comments on this.

Peter

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Briefly Peter,

You won’t know till you try I guess.

For me, just sharing and actually being heard by both of us actually deepens our intimacy – cause at those times we are just our raw feeling selves.

My Partner and I now embark on a journey of practicing that and with the help of our therapist.

Hope this sheds some light for you my friend

Scott

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This one seems to extend to family (to varying degrees) too - is it not true for most of us that we'd have a shorter fuse with immediate family members more so than say, the four of us guys?

I know it's true for me.

Partners and families are the closest to us (outside of our chosen family friends/brothers) yet it is easier to slip into crisis or combat (for want of a better word) with these loved ones for whom we actually care about.

I don't get why I, in my vulnerability, hurt, confusion, stress, anger, instinctively engage in chocolate cake throwing (or s@#t slinging) or
fancy shmancy sophisticated language with my partner, way way before I would if I were sharing with or listening to you guys.

What really gets me though, is that in that ultimate moment of intimacy (sharing a truth or vulnerability) the instant 'just add water' crisis or combat is threatening intimacy and in fact demonstrating disrespect.

That gets to me because (in our family), we base everything on respect -
respect is like the root value, the basis of anything we teach our family, the basis of any discipline, the basis of all and any agreements we make
with each other. Respect is the basis for manners, ethics, acceptance of other beliefs etc etc.

My point is that we keep it simple; is it demonstrating respect, or disrespect? And yet it is so easy for me [experiencing a distinction here] to automatically/unconsciously drop into a mode of disrespect by not just listening, by using well crafted language, by getting hooked in emotionally - or conversely, by not being listened to (the way I want to
be listened to), or being on the receiving end of well crafted language. It seems so easy to go against that value of respect with the one I love
the most [insert paradox here], and we both do it. I am convinced now that we are not the only ones doing this too.

*************QUESTION for further discussion:

Why is it that we so easily hurt and get hurt by the ones we love (when deep down we probably want to shield or protect them from being hurt)?

Cheers

Chris

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Hmm just some random thoughts in your guys’ discussion, I believe that it is because of the intimacy, connection, shared values etc
that each of us share with those whom we love, that creates the confusion the conflict and tension. Because it is from them that we expect the
support/healing/nurturing, we want our partners to love us the way we want; we want them to listen to us the way we want. Our engagement, our enmeshment with them forces an expectation (whether consciously or unconsciously) that they know us better than anyone else (and in some cases have even done the same work we have to the same level) therefore isn't it
realistic (consciously or unconsciously) to expect that which we most desire from those who are so close. We have an expectation of better from those who are close then mere friends/brothers as what they do or say has a much more direct impact on our daily lives then friends/brothers do. And our partners are very human and very female in their thoughts desires and issues regarding us, they expect the same thing from us as well plus more.
These are fundamentally basic emotions and desires, not everything we say can be heard in the same way and some things should not be shared to wives or partners, any of the greatest people have had confidants in which to share worries or doubt.

In moments of rawness when the capacity to listen or share is seriously compromised when the other person has little or no will to do that we strike out with the weapons we have at hand, as I believe the hierarchy of
needs or survival instinct/reptile brain kicks in, and in the heat of the moment we don’t exactly say it in a way for the other to actually hear it.
Being vulnerable when there are some sharp sticks being pointed at you is a very difficult prospect, and vulnerability can be the ultimate weapon to
disarm someone from attacking you.

Anyway, tension is the lens in which creation becomes focussed.

Sincerely

Brad

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So who are you being?
Who are you being in your relationship/s?